Podcast Ep.100: The Woman’s Role (Amy Spreeman and Michelle Lesley)
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- There are heavy conversations going on today about the role of women in ministry. The two views fall under one of two categories. Either Complementarian or Egalitarian. Here is an adequate definition of each. “Complementarian and egalitarianism are two views used to describe the role of women in the church. Complementarianism is the view that women are limited regarding leadership roles in the church (such as elder/pastor or deacon). Egalitarianism is the view that women can serve in all forms of church leadership, including ordination as pastors.” (Source here) In this podcast, and the one following, I will devote the time to each topic. While I am a Complementarian I try to remain as neutral as I can in both interviews. In this podcast I had the privilege of interviewing Amy Spreeman and Michel Lesley. In a couple weeks I will put out a podcast with C&MA pastor, Rob Bashioum who serves as lead Pastor at Salem Alliance Church.
- Today we will talk about what does the Bible say regarding the role of women in the church? How much is culture shaping the changing views of the role of women either at home or in the church? And, what pastors perhaps need to consider if they are stuck in the middle of this debate.
Here is more information about today’s guests.
Amy Spreeman hails from Minnesota, but has spent most of her adult life across the border in Wisconsin. She and her husband have two grown kids and are empty-nesters, except for the dogs and chickens. Amy enjoys reading and designing websites in her spare time, and loves to listen to Christian audiobooks and podcasts. Growing up, she was fascinated with the cult craze of the 70s, and started researching movements within the visible church after learning first hand how devastating those aberrant gospels (small g) can be. In 2010 she helped launch a discernment radio program called Stand Up for the Truth, and spent 5 years having her mind blown by the level of apostasy in churches around the world. When she speaks at conferences and women’s groups, she points them to the hope of Jesus Christ. She is the founder of Berean Research and Naomi’s Table Bible Studies for Women. You can also check out her archives from earlier work at aspreeman.com.
Michelle Lesley hails from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, (Geaux Tigers!) where she and her husband are the proud parents of five sons and one daughter ranging in age from their teens to their thirties. Michelle loves to read, cook, and stay active in women’s ministry and other activities at church. God has blessed her with ministry opportunities outside the church as well, from authoring a women’s Bible study to writing Sunday School material for a major Christian publisher to speaking all over the country at women’s conferences, on podcasts, and at other events. Currently, Michelle’s ministry focus is discipling Christian women through her writing. Find out more about Michelle and her ministry at her blog: Michelle Lesley- Discipleship for Christian Women.
Both Michelle and Amy host a podcast called, called A Word Fitly Spoken. Check it out here.
Thanks, Mitch. This was something I needed to hear and be reminded of. I had some idea but was surprised to see some of the names these ladies list as false teachers. I have been experiencing the Spirit-led desire to get more serious about not only reading the Word, but studying it with Him as my guide. I appreciate your prayers and the work you are doing!
Thank you Jan. you have always been an example to me of what it means to be a godly woman.
35 minutes in and there hasn’t been a Biblical argument for complementarianism yet….
Lots of fear and snarky judgment, but no Biblical argument yet.
Help me understand. Women cannot teach men, yet I am a man listening to two women tell me how to interpret Scripture. How do I reconcile that?
Hi Jim both your comments are welcomed here. thanks for raising it. In retrospect I would have spent more time with Michelle and Amy on our view of scripture. That was a mistake on my part. I think we went into it with a lot of assumptions, and given that we did agree on our biblical view, we discussed more the implications of that view, rather than defending our biblical position. That was a huge mistake on my part and I would do that all over again. You also make a good point about two women talking on this issue. Well, that would be like saying two women are meeting with me over coffee and this is the discussion. Far cry from either of them standing behind a pulpit preaching the gospel. Make sense. Thanks so much for reaching out.
Thanks for the feedback and I appreciate that. The question I have regarding “two women are meeting with me over coffee” and it’s a “far cry from either of them standing behind a pulpit.” I have heard this argument before. Can you back up how you arrive at, what I would call, this nuanced interpretation of Scripture? How is it that I should allow myself to be convicted by two women on a podcast, yet not from the pulpit?
Obviously I’m tipping my hand a bit so I’ll say clearly: I think that is 1) a position that you can arrive at for sure, and I would say it’s understandable but 2) it’s nuanced, and grey at best.
Therefore, to me it is not a viewpoint that allows for such a judgmental stance that the podcast gave off…
Thanks Jim. I think I would just say that the podcast is not something to convince people. I simply took this topic and covered both sides of the issue. I would simply site the Timothy passage which prohibits women because of the headship before creation and after the fall. It’s quite clear to me. Thanks for the dialogue.
I’ve heard this line of thinking before…that they’re just talking and I’m listening so it’s not prohibited.
Can you explain how you land on that nuanced view? And would you be willing to admit that it is, in fact, nuanced and not entirely clear in the Scriptures?